Be Part of the Change podcast episodes 5-7 – Neurodiversity Celebration Week

In the fifth episode of our Be Part of the Change podcast, Jack Champion, Welfare Officer at UCEM, is joined by Laura Pollard, an Apprentice Surveyor at JLL currently studying Real Estate Management with UCEM.

The topics discussed on this episode include:

• • How Laura first became aware of her ADHD
  • The impact it’s had on Laura’s journey through work and education
  • Laura’s experience of ADHD support at UCEM
  • Laura’s tips and tricks for dealing with ADHD

You can also listen via:

• Apple Podcasts
• Spotify

Full transcript

 

[00:02] Aysha: Hello and welcome to the Be Part of the Change podcast. This is UCEM’s new series that will explore the challenges and success stories faced by those from underrepresented backgrounds in the built environment. This episode is being recorded as part of Neurodiversity Celebration Week. If you are a UCEM student and would like to speak with our disability and welfare team, please raise an inquiry on Student Central or call the student advice telephone number on 0118-921-4696.

[00:40] Jack: Hi, everyone, and welcome to another one of our podcasts as part of Neurodiversity celebration Week here at UCEM. My name’s Jack and I’m part of the disability and welfare teams here and I’m joined by one of our students, Laura, to talk about ADHD. So thank you for joining me, Laura, how are you doing to.

[00:58] Laura: I’m very well, thanks, Jack. How are you?

[01:01] Jack: Good, yeah, I’m not too bad, thank you. So tell us about yourself. Which course are you studying and where are you working?

[01:08] Laura: I am currently doing the Chartered Surveyor degree apprenticeship with UCEM. So, yeah, I’m an apprentice doing an undergrad at the moment in real estate management. I’m going into my final year, so my fourth year and I’m working at JLL Jones laying this out.

[01:26] Jack: Lovely. Thank you. Lauret, going into your final year must be an exciting feeling, but also I know the pressure can amp up sometimes.

[01:32] Laura: Yes, definitely. Yeah, no, it’s going to get. It’s going to ramp up for sure in the last year, so I don’t know whether to be nervous or excited for the fact it’s nearly over, but.

[01:42] Jack: Yeah, I think a mix of both is going to be perfectly natural.

[01:46] Laura: Yeah, exactly.

[01:48] Jack: So can you tell us about your experience of receiving a diagnosis of ADHD?

[01:54] Laura: Yeah, of course. So when I was, I think it was nearly three or four years ago now, maybe three years ago, I didn’t really know what ADHD was, I didn’t have any awareness about it. It was actually my mum who suggested it to me. She was studying neurology at the time and she told me a bit about it and I did think, oh, that does make a lot of sense. So, yeah, three years ago I was on the NHS waitlist to have an assessment. I think it was a year after that because it was just taking too long to get an assessment, so ended up going through the private route with a psychiatrist for the assessment. I was asked a lot of questions. My mum was there as well, they went through old school reports and yeah, when I was told I had it. I kind of felt very relieved. It was something. Yeah, it was something that I kind of thought I had, but it just explained a lot because all of the struggle that I’d felt over my childhood and growing up, it made a lot of sense as to why I felt very different to other people. Yeah, it was just a big, oh, that makes sense moment, I guess.

[03:07] Jack: Yeah, yeah. I really hear what you’re saying. When it was introduced to you a few years prior and you didn’t know a lot about it, then suddenly like, oh, okay, that maybe makes sense for me. And actually building up to. I know how long the NHS waiting lists can be, and it’s so great that you were able to access a private diagnosis and that sense of relief that you get when you hear, yeah, we agree. We think this is the way your brain works, and there is a kind of, oh, okay. It’s not just me. There is actually something else at play here, and it’s really great to have that understanding as well, moving forward.

[03:42] Laura: Yeah, exactly. I definitely. There was definitely a big weight off my shoulders as to thinking, okay, there’s not something really wrong with me. Yeah. Like you said, just to have someone say, like, confirm it in your head, a big step for me.

[03:59] Jack: Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that’s something that is maybe a little bit different about being diagnosed as an adult, because you don’t have that understanding for so long. I think children who are diagnosed perhaps through cams, it’s just something they grow up with. Whereas when you are left not quite understanding yourself for so many years, I think either there can be a sense of relief or sometimes when I was diagnosed as an adult, there was a little bit of anger, I suppose, a little bit of a grieving period of, why didn’t I have this understanding earlier that would have been so helpful? And there was definitely a mix of the two in there for me, so it’s really nice to hear that for you, it was just a sense of, thank goodness I know what’s going on now and I have this perspective.

[04:43] Laura: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It was almost like what I’d say that I felt, because I remember feeling really emotional when I first had that confirmation, but it was almost like a morning of my old self. I don’t have to describe it, all those years as a child of just you kind of look back and go, oh, I wish I knew sooner just to helps that little girl understand a bit more.

[05:09] Jack: Yeah, I think you described it perfectly, Laura, that morning of the little version of you. What would they have been like if they had this understanding. I think you hit the nail on the head there.

[05:21] Laura: Yeah.

[05:22] Jack: And so what has your journey through education and work been like? And with ADHD, do you feel like that’s affected it?

[05:32] Laura: Yes. Is the long and short answer with work? Maybe. I think for me, I’d always found when I got into a job, I always found the practical working a little bit easier, maybe hands on job I enjoyed a bit more. I found it good to sort of work around people. But previously, before that, the education I had at school had always felt very, very tough. And it always felt like, why does everyone else seem to be getting on with it so much more easily than me? It just felt like I was almost trying and trying so hard to not compete, but to be on the same level of everyone else. Like just normal day to day tasks, like organizing myself, all of these things. Laura’s forgotten this book, Laura’s, you know, missed this deadline. All of this stuff, like, how can I not get a grip of this? It felt like it was just impossible. Stuff at school that I enjoyed seemed to be fine, but then other stuff that would just be so long, so difficult. Teachers, remember, would always comment to my parents saying that I had a lot of energy, but I just couldn’t concentrate, maybe, yeah, that was quite loud, disruptive in classes and, yeah, I think at school, no one really knew what ADHD was as well. It sort of didn’t feel like, well, maybe it was recognized as something completely different. It was seen as like a very, like, hyperactive thing. So now I think people know a lot more about it. But that’s just in recent years. But no, I think at school I was tested for dyslexia a few times, sort of mild dyslexia, but, like, nothing really explaining why it was such a struggle. Yeah. As I got older, I think is why I became particularly good at masking my symptoms. Quite a lot of the time I’d be nodding and saying I understood when no one was there. Up top. Yeah. I’d actually get to the point where I was so worried about saying stuff impulsively that I’d probably decide to not really speak at all. Just became quite quiet and withdrawn when I was sitting. When I was. I remember when I did have sort of hyperactive moments, I remember sitting on my hands for quite a lot of the time. It’s a random thing, but it would just help me to sort of stay a bit in my chair and, yeah, that was probably. It was a difficult time through education, let’s just say, of non understanding.

[08:21] Jack: You touch on quite a few things there that really resonate with me and my experience. And I know a lot of the experience of other students I’ve spoken with. I used to sit on my hands as well just to try. It was quite grounding to try and stay focused. I was like, no, I’m not going to fidget. I’m going to stay still. And that, like you say, people in schools, at least when you were going through school or your particular teachers, I think for so long, the understanding of ADHD was hyperactive behavior. And stereotypically it was little boys who can’t stay in their seat and they’re loud and they interrupt and they’re not going to follow the rules. And when you bring masking into the equation, when you monitor those symptoms, you think, no, I actually want to present differently. People then go, okay, there’s something here. Could it be dyslexia? And you go down different routes until eventually the understanding has developed and suddenly as an adult, you go, well, all along it was ADHD. And so I really see how that has such an impact for you in your journey through education and work, particularly with the frustration of not being able to do as well and thinking, why am I not able to meet this deadline? Why am I not able to focus? Why am I not getting this content when everyone else seems to be getting it so easily? I think so often for people who are neurodivergent and particularly with ADHD, we turn those frustrations inward because we think it must be something wrong with me. I must be the problem here. And I think that’s why having that understanding several years later can be such a mixture of relief and mourning. Because I was beating myself up for so many years about not being able to get it and it being so much harder for me than everyone else. Now I have an answer.

[10:12] Laura: Yeah, I don’t know if you found this as well, but I certainly found that lots of people had their opinions already on what ADHD washing. And so people would sort of turn around to me and say, oh, no, that’s just you. You’re just messy, or you’re just this or you’re just that. Don’t be silly. You don’t, you know, it is just you misbehaving or is just you not quite meeting the criteria that we have in mind. So I think it’s just taken a really, really long time for everyone to learn more about it and. And I think, well, for me to certainly be more accepting of what I’m like and just because of other people’s perceptions of what ADHD was. Slash is nowadays.

[10:59] Jack: I think that’s totally understandable because it takes such a long time for external understanding to develop. When we’re given so many other labels. Growing up lazy, not being able to focus, not trying hard enough, we can internalize those. And so it takes a while to unlearn those messages that we’ve been given all throughout our education. It’s hard.

[11:22] Laura: Yeah, it’s funny hearing you say those exact labels because I think that it’s just the exact same ones that I got growing up as well. It’s just like, doesn’t try hard enough, lazy. And I think, yeah, especially I didn’t know you had it either. So I always find it very interesting speaking to people that have had a similar experience because you do just feel very alone in it when you’re growing up and then realizing when you get diagnosed that there are other people out there that feel exactly the same. I’ve been told the same thing, are like, oh my God, I thought I was the person in the world.

[11:56] Jack: Yeah, exactly. Well, I’m glad that we can connect with it because everything you’re saying is really resonating with me and I’m sure it will with anyone who comes to listen to this in the future as well who has ADHD themselves.

[12:09] Laura: I hope so.

[12:10] Jack: So with those kind of comments on what it was like going through earlier educational systems, what has your experience of ADHD support been like at UCEM?

[12:23] Laura: Do you know what? Really positive. Since getting diagnosed, I felt extremely nervous about returning to the studying stage of life again and, you know, academic side of work because of all that, all of the previous experience, the previous experience I had at school. So in my head, the education system were going to treat me one way. I guess it was very different because, you know, it’s, it was one subject, it’s part time. And I had no idea that UCEM would be really clued up on what ADHD was. Have a big understanding around it, actually more so than I even thought I knew at the time. And yeah, they just put a lot of support in place, which I never really had at school. So I think I have stuff like my clear link sessions. I found every help to sort of keep me on track. I have extended deadlines, which is sometimes good. It’s not because deadlines for ADHD, if they get extended, it doesn’t really make sense, that much of a difference. But yeah, I just felt very listened to and understood about the struggles that ADHD brings from UCEM. Yeah.

[13:42] Jack: Thank you, Laura. That’s lovely to hear. On a couple of accounts. One, as someone who has ADHD and knows what letdowns there can be with support available, and also as someone who works for the disability team at UCEM and hearing that you had such a positive experience here, we do really try to have that deeper understanding of what impact does ADHD have on someone who studies here and what is it that we can do to help. So I’m really pleased to hear that the clear link sessions you have a useful specialist mentoring, which is either available for our apprentices or students often get it through disabled students application if they’re on one of our non apprenticeship programs. That’s such a great help. And like you say, the deadlines for some students, if you just say, great, we’ll pop in a 14 day extension for you. That’s just a two week delay on that final, that infancy that you have to do the assignment is just two weeks later. So sometimes the conversation I have is, we have the option of extensions. Is it going to be useful? Because I know for me I need that pressure to get started. So if I’m just delaying it by two weeks, I don’t know how much help that’s actually giving.

[15:05] Laura: Yeah, no, the delaying it and I just think. I don’t think there’s been a single time where I haven’t left it to the last minute, unfortunately. Like, it’s just the way I operate, like you, is just the pressure gets the hyper fixation going and all of that.

[15:26] Jack: Yeah, yeah. So often it’s that urgency that gets ADHD brains in action and hyper fixation really nicely segues into my next question, which is, with yourself, what do you find are your personal strengths with ADHD and any challenges related to ADHD?

[15:48] Laura: It’s just so, like, to encapsulate it in a few words is quite difficult because it just feels like your entire life is affected by it, I guess with personal strengths I might, like you mentioned already, and I think I touched on the hyper fixation is sometimes brilliant. It means that I get sometimes very high periods of energy. I will work on something and it will sometimes literally be like, you can’t get me away from it. If I’m interrupted, I get very annoyed, leave me in my zone two to 3 hours sometimes just undisturbed to the point where I’m like, ok, I need to probably eat something now. That being said, it has its downfalls as well, doesn’t it? With the downside being the hyper focus isn’t always on the right thing. So, yeah, it can sometimes mean that I’m really focused, but just not on the right thing or it’s sometimes really hard to get into that hyper focus, I find. And, yeah, it’s just. It leaves me down a bit of a rabbit hole, I think, sometimes. But that being said, I probably couldn’t operate properly without it. So I’d probably say another strength that ADHD probably brings is a. Is definitely a different perspective. I definitely, I’ve been told before, I think very out of the box. I’m quite imaginative. I have definitely different perspective. As I said, maybe, yeah, creativity is definitely something that I find comes in hand with it. But as again, I said before, can lead me down rabbit holes. It’s sometimes not the most productive thing in the world. Be like being creative about everything. I don’t know, is there anything that you find that lens itself to ADHD?

[17:58] Jack: I think what you say about hyper fixation is so, so apt. Hyper fixation, I think, is one of our superpowers. And once I’m in it, I can do a day’s worth of work in a couple of hours. But like you say, I might then forget to eat, to drink. I might forget what the time is, I might forget another appointment that I meant to be going to. And it would be such a greater superpower if I could choose where I could enter that state of hyper fixation. If I could decide when that happens, that would be fantastic. But exactly. Like you say, we don’t get as much of a say in that. And it might be that it’s motivated by how much we enjoy something. If it’s a creative endeavor that really gets the dopamine flowing in our brains, we’re going to be going down that rabbit hole for a while.

[18:50] Laura: Yeah.

[18:50] Jack: And it might be great, but it also can have its detriments. And as well, one of the challenges is if I’m in that state and you interrupt me, you can get like this sense of anger. You’re like, leave me alone. I was finally in something because I think it’s so dysregulating to finally be focused on something and then be interrupted. The chance of me being able to go back into that state afterwards, it’s like 50 50.

[19:19] Laura: Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. It’s like a roll of dice, isn’t it? But we’re upset. The fact that your chances have been missed if someone interrupts you. But yeah, no, I think, yeah, the hyper focus is definitely brilliant, isn’t it? I think it’s sometimes very hard to get into that state. There. I’ve had sort of times where it’s just really, really hard to tune in. I guess life feels a bit chaotic and just the downfalls feel like they’re coming day after day. Yeah. It’s not one thing, really, that is great about all of it, but, yeah, I’m definitely more sensitive to a lot of things from ADHD. I don’t know if that is something that is related to ADHD, but I definitely feel like. I feel things very deeply, I think. Yeah, a lot of people would say that I maybe struggle to emotionally regulate myself quite a lot. So, yeah, there’s definitely a lot of. I mean, I guess that means I feel quite empathetic towards people sometimes, which I guess is a. Is a pro. Maybe a drawback of that is the fact that it just feels like an overwhelming sense of emotion sometimes with other people, and I need to sort of take myself out of feeling so emotional about a situation that’s not mine. Yeah.

[20:45] Jack: Already, though, you’ve touched on another strength that comes hand in hand with a challenge. Something that we talk about in the world of neurodiversity is spiky profiles. And that’s basically where, if you had a wheel of cognitive abilities like emotional regulation, empathy, spatial awareness, critical thinking, verbal reasoning, you know, someone who is neurotypical would present a lot more evenly around the circle, whereas quite often is the case with neurodivergent individuals, you’ll see spikes in. They’ve got excellent empathetic skills, but their ability to emotionally regulate is perhaps a little bit weaker than someone who’s neurotypical.

[21:26] Laura: Right.

[21:26] Jack: So I don’t think we can say it’s not related to ADHD, but that advanced sense of empathy, the ability to feel things so deeply, is such a huge strength when making emotional connections. And whatever that looks like in personal or work relationships, it can be such an asset. But then on the other side of that coin is this difficulty with regulating the intensity of the emotion that you feel. And sometimes it can be disruptive and sometimes it’s not super helpful. Yeah, I think that really rang true for me as well.

[22:04] Laura: Very interesting. Yeah, that’s interesting what you say about neurotypical people having just being, like, the perfect circle. I mean, perfect circle, but all of the. Not feeling the spikes is intensely. Yeah, no, that’s very interesting.

[22:22] Jack: And then with the challenges that you experience and maybe in recognition of some of the strengths that you have, do you have any tips on what you’d share with the life of someone who has ADHD?

[22:36] Laura: I would definitely say that it does take a lot to sort of know yourself and then what’s right for me might not be right for the next person with ADHD. So it is difficult for me to say exactly. But for me, what helps for sure is the routine. The routine is really big for me. I need to have that sort of nine to five in my job, sort of everything needs to be in the right order for me. Otherwise if one thing gets thrown off, it’s quite hard for me to feel like life doesn’t get really chaotic again. My routine is big. My diet, my exercise definitely plays a massive part in it for me. I find that sometimes I need to regulate myself in terms of sugar. It’s something that I suddenly have drops in and then I need to pick up and sort of suddenly get some on board exercise as well. Just. I definitely have that sort of endorphin rush after going for a run and it does just calm things a lot for me. That being said, I don’t. I probably don’t run as much as I should. It’s not in. Yeah, in same way, my routine is probably the best thing. Yeah. It’s just the balance, isn’t it? Finding the balance of whatever works for you. And I’m still working out, to be honest. I sometimes find that, you know, some days with medication, that’s always helped me a bit. Some days I’m just. I don’t want it. It’s a toolbox, I guess, but, yeah, a mixture of things. Diethye, routine, exercise. Yeah. How about you? Have you found that one particular thing is it helps you to work it out or.

[24:28] Jack: I think, like you say, it is such a lifelong task of getting to know myself and really understanding the way that my brain works. So whilst I have to definitely adapt it for my own routine, really common things that I think will resonate with a lot of people who have ADHD are exercise. That’s such a huge one. Often the mental block of wanting to do exercise can be quite strong. But understanding the endorphin rush, just how regulating it can be for people who have ADHD. One of the main pieces of advice that was given when the UK has such a huge ADHD medication shortage was prioritize exercise, because it can be so regulating people who have ADHD. So those runs that you’re going on are doing such a great benefit for them. And really interesting you say about sugar as well, because I definitely know that. And the big thing with ADHD and for myself is using sugar to regulate, is using food to soothe. If I’m just so overwhelmed. I’ll seek it. And really being in touch with your body, noticing. Okay, I’ve had a bit of a dip and I need something, or maybe I’ve got enough, and maybe I need to taper down with something else or give a run to kind of regulate. Yeah, I connected with that, and it sounds like you have such a great developing understanding of what works for you. That’s really lovely to hear.

[25:58] Laura: Yeah. It’s getting there anyway, but, yeah, it’s not. It’s still. I think it would be naive of me to say that it’s all figured out because it’s just not yet, but it would. I hope it’s getting there to one day be in a. When I look back, though, I think I’m actually in a much better place with how I deal with it than I was a few years ago. So I guess, like, looking at the progress and of my routine and how it’s made such a difference is actually really good.

[26:28] Jack: Yeah. Having that perspective of what things were like before you had this understanding is so crucial because we can get caught up in the day to day so easily. It’s nice to look back and go, I’ve actually come a really long way.

[26:40] Laura: Yeah. Yeah.

[26:41] Jack: And so that’s. That’s amazing. And quickly. And you don’t have to answer this, but you mentioned medication, and I was wondering if you would feel comfortable commenting on how that’s helped you and what that’s been like.

[26:56] Laura: Yeah, no, I’d be comfortable with it. It’s not something that I thought originally it would be for me. I think originally I tried to seek sort of. I want to say natural. Natural is probably the wrong word, but natural remedies. So, like you said, the diet, the exercise, the routine, I was always told that maybe I should give medication a go. So I did trial it for a bit, and then when I did it, it was like, wow, this is a fantastic way. Like, it just feels like it solves a lot for me. But just relying on purely medication, I think after a year of just having. Using that as sort of my. In my toolbox, it had a massive downside effect to it. You know, at the end of the day, I would get really, really anxious. I would struggle internally a lot. I would find myself not quite. It’s a weird feeling. It’s like you’re not really yourself on it. And I sort of missed the old. By my normal self, it sounds very weird. Took me out of my usual thoughts and feelings. I felt very like it was almost controlled. So I’ve started to. It’s something that I do need to help me when I study, but I do not feel like I need it in my day to day. Yeah, I take it when I feel like I need it, because some days are better than others, if that makes sense.

[28:27] Jack: Absolutely. Thank you for such a well rounded answer, because, like you say, it has its benefit. And on days where you need to study and focus, that is fantastic. But at other times, there is a side of it that takes you out of your usual experiences. And so focusing on what that relationship looks like for you is really important. And I think it’s really insightful for anyone listening to this who thinks that maybe they want to try it.

[28:53] Laura: I think for a lot of people, they say it’s changed their life. It’s been amazing and I’m definitely not taking away from that. For some people with ADHD, it has been. It sold a lot of things and it’s really useful. I think just for me, with my experience of it, I can’t just rely on purely the medication. It needs to be, like I said, a toolbox of using other things. I think it’s the same with a lot of things. You need an all rounded approach otherwise, because if you just take one thing, it’s not going to solve all your problems.

[29:33] Jack: Beautifully said, laura. It’s a toolbox. Absolutely. I think taking a holistic approach when managing your own ADHD is absolutely vital. So thank you. And finally, if there’s anyone listening to this who thinks they might have ADHD, what would you say to them?

[29:49] Laura: I would say to talk to yourself with kindness and understanding. I think it’s really, really difficult to be having those internal feelings and feeling like you’re alone in the process. I mean, if it means getting tested for your peace of mind, then do that. But if. I think it is just mainly that there are other people out there that feel the same way and you don’t need to give yourself such a hard time because it is very normal. And, yeah, to probably reach out to those around you, I’d say that maybe who saw you grow up, if you have that, who know you very well, I’d say speak to your support network. They’ll maybe ask them, do you think I might have this? Or does this sound. Does this sound like I might have it? Yeah, just open up about it and don’t let it be so internal. You can constantly think there’s something wrong with you. Why can’t I perform like everyone else? But it’s not you. It’s sort of. There’s actually something with how you think it’s different, but it’s not normal. Not, not normal, if that makes sense.

[31:02] Jack: It absolutely does. And I think that self compassion piece is huge. Really monitor the way that you’re talking to yourself because, you know, when we’re internalizing those frustrations, it can become a bit mean and we can beat ourselves up. So recognizing that maybe we deserve a little bit of empathy ourselves and reaching out to someone else to talk about it, I think that’s excellent advice. Thank you, Laura.

[31:26] Laura: No worries.

[31:28] Jack: Okay. I think that’s a really nice way of rounding this off. So thank you so much for joining me today. It has been fantastic to hear your experience and thank you for being so open and honest here. Anyone listening? If you have any thoughts or questions about ADHD based on what you’ve heard today, please feel free to get in contact with us. You can reach out to the disability team by raising an inquiry on Student Central or giving them a call on zero 118-921-4696 using option two and check out some of the other events we’ve got going on for Neurodiversity celebration week. Thank you again, Laura, for joining me today. It’s been lovely to have you and thanks everyone for tuning in.

In the sixth episode of our Be Part of the Change podcast, Zara Edmonds, Student Officer for Disability and Welfare and Apprentice at UCEM, is joined by Kathryn Moody, an MSc Real Estate student.

The topics discussed on this episode include:

• Kathryn and Zara’s experience being diagnosed with dyslexia
• How this diagnosis impacted their mental health and education
• The support Kathryn has received from UCEM
• Kathryn’s tips for students with dyslexia

You can also listen via:

• Apple Podcasts
• Spotify

Full transcript

 

[00:02] Aysha: Hello and welcome to the Be Part of the Change podcast. This is UCEMs new series that will explore the challenges and success stories faced by those from underrepresented backgrounds in the built environment. This episode is being recorded as part of Neurodiversity Celebration Week. If you are a UCEM student and would like to speak with our disability and welfare team, please raise an inquiry on student central or call the student advice telephone number on Odeenen.

[00:41] Zara: Hi, guys, I’m Zara Edmonds. I’m a student officer here at UCEM for disability and welfare. And today I’m doing a podcast on dyslexia. So here we have Kathryn with us. And, yeah, we’re just going to be doing a couple of questions on dyslexia, sort of getting to know our stories and especially Kathryn’s story around dyslexia. So, yeah, Kathryn, are you relocate? Start.

[01:00] Kathryn: I’m ready when you are. Let’s go.

[01:02] Zara: Perfect. Well, if you wouldn’t mind just telling us a bit about yourself. So what course are you studying here at UCEM? Where are you working? Sort of around that.

[01:11] Kathryn: So I’m currently studying part time, the MSc in Real Estate. I think I’m on my third year because I had to defer a module and I work in the public sector, in one of the property departments there, and they are sponsoring me to complete the MSc.

[01:28] Zara: Oh, that’s sort of similar to myself, then. I’m an apprentice as well, so doing the real estate pathway, which is quite nice. So, yeah, so with. Obviously this is all about dyslexia. Could you tell us sort of, about your experiences in the early stages of being diagnosed, how that made you feel? Sort of, you know, what was the process, if you wouldn’t mind?

[01:47] Kathryn: Not at all. It weirdly came about for me because my mum worked in the library of a university and they did a training day on dyslexia and she just came home and sort of had a talk with me and was saying that I ticked every single box on key identifiers for dyslexia. I was at year eight or nine of secondary school, and up to that point, you know, when you used to get the reports through and it’s. What was it the teachers used to say? Clever, but doesn’t apply herself. That’s what you get, that sort of reinforcement of, she’s more than capable, she’s just not putting the effort in. It was challenging because, I don’t know about you, but it’s incredibly frustrating for somebody like a teacher to feed that back to you when you’re struggling to keep up. And I know that when I was younger I had to work so hard just to keep up. Homework took longer, everything took longer and it was just that challenge. So my mum went to the school, spoke to the Sen as it was called back then. They brought me in for a brief assessment and did like after school classes with me for like say an hour every week. It was amazing. It was that sort of support that had. I can spell things correctly but I put the wrong word in so they’re there and just little basics like for there. If it’s a place, it’s got here in it, if it’s got the IR in, it’s about a person. So it’s just, for me it was just affirming that I wasn’t stupid, I could actually do it. I just needed help and support to learn coping mechanisms to enable me to achieve no 100%.

[03:43] Zara: And I totally feel you in that sort of sense because at school it was always the, you know, she tries, but it’s just not at the same standard as everybody else is at. And it’s just so, you know, hard work and it takes a toll on even your mental health going, I’m really, I’m putting more effort in than probably the whole class put together but it’s still nothing clicking. And I totally felt that as well, going through, you know, primary school and secondary school and, you know, until I did get the diagnosis, it was actually, oh, maybe that that’s what’s going on, rather than just me feel like, oh, every, the school’s against me and, you know, work isn’t clicking and, you know, as a young person as well, it’s really hard to understand, you know, there’s something is wrong with you and I’m sure you appreciate as you get older it’s okay to ask for help.

[04:39] Kathryn: Absolutely, yeah. I think for me, dyslexia, I think in my family’s hereditary, as in I think probably one of my parents has it, possibly grandparents. My brother’s dyspraxic and there’s nothing wrong with us. We just are wired differently and we think differently and I think there’s so many benefits from that because we can see things that maybe people that aren’t dyslexic can’t see. We may be more creative, we may, you know, I think that thinking process, it just, if you have the support behind you, I think, you know, you can go on to achieve no, 100%.

[05:18] Zara: And I totally agree with you in that sense. We’ve got our own special little power, actually, you know, it all makes us different. I think at the end of the day, everybody’s got something. You know, if it’s dyslexia, if it’s slow processing, I think everybody’s got something, but it’s to what scale? Until you say, I do need just a little bit of extra help, and there’s nothing wrong in saying it, so, yeah, that’s brilliant. Thank you very much for that, Kathryn. So, with your dyslexia diagnosis, let’s just take it sort of back. How did that sort of feel, receiving the news? Were you upset? Were you happy that, you know, they found something? Was it clearer for you to understand?

[05:59] Kathryn: I think there was an element of relief. Like I said before, I’m not lazy. There is something there that I just need a little bit more help or a little bit more assistance. There’s nothing wrong with me. And I think, I suppose there was a little bit of frustration towards the education system, as in, I’m year nine or year eight at school, you know, I was approaching GCSE’s. I wouldn’t have got the marks that I did or been able to go to university without that help. And I think it’s a lot better now than what it was, but I think we still have somewhere to go with it.

[06:39] Zara: So I was diagnosed in year nine with dyslexia, so I understand the impending GCSE’s and going, it’s quite a sigh of relief, going, oh, we found it before the major exams. But the support you received, what type of support did you get? Was it extra time? Did you have to ask for that, or did you get assessed with it, if you don’t mind me asking?

[07:07] Kathryn: At school, they did assess me. It was a brief assessment, but they did provide sort of like after school lessons to try and help me out. And also a really key thing was I had 10% extra time in exams and that was GCSE A levels. And because of that extra time, I was often in a different room, and I think just having that peace and quiet and not having hundreds of students really, really helped. And it just gave me time to process the question.

[07:40] Zara: Yeah, no, definitely. I was similar as well. I got 25% extra time in my exams and a reader, so likewise, you put in your own room, you don’t get distracted by others. And actually, it’s quite nice to be able to just get along with your work, which I’m sure, you know, you felt so kind of following through this, going through education and onto the workplace. How do you think your dyslexia has affected starting work, starting university life here at UCEM. How do you think dyslexia has affected you?

[08:11] Kathryn: I’m lucky in some respects. It’s my second degree. So I went through a proper educational psychologist report prior to uni and that gave detailed information about things that could help me out, whether that be a tutor or having certain computer programs like Dragon or read, write and they really helped me and also like recordings of the lectures so I could go back and relisten and actually process it because I always find it hard to sort of absorb the information at the time when I’m trying to write notes and.

[08:50] Zara: Keep up the classic, doing two things at once, being being a dyslexic, you know, having the recordings as a blessing rather than through my education. And I was quite lucky because I was the COVID era of education. We could have these teams recordings and going back on them probably saved half of my educational GCSE’s at A level results, definitely.

[09:14] Kathryn: And like, I went into the workplace and they did help me get programs like Dragon and things like that and it did help. A lot of people were supportive of it. I will admit there’s some people that didn’t like, but you’ve got to do what’s best for you. And if that I see these programs or recordings or things you can get either through the workplace or through university or education, they’re levelling the playfield, that’s all they are. They’re just helping you achieve what you.

[09:46] Zara: Would otherwise through UCEM. What has your support been like? Have you received lots of support? Have you been given a counsellor? What has your support been like?

[10:00] Kathryn: I’ve had great support. I contacted the disability team when I was looking at universities and the different options and I spoke to one of the disability team in depth. Sorry about, you know, what support is there these days because it’s 20 years since I last graduated. You know how they could help me out and it’s been fantastic. I’ve had support through or they told me about the DSC. I don’t know what the acronym means, but it’s basically when I’m given like computer programs or mind map programs to help me process and to achieve and it’s just been incredibly helpful, like since COVID I have got long Covid, so for me it exacerbates my dyslexia when I have really bad fatigue. So being able to talk to them and say, look, this is the situation I’m in and they’ve helped me through assessments or if I’ve needed mitigating circumstances because of ill health, they’ve been fantastic. I had shingles at the beginning of the year, completely different to dyslexia, and the support I got was second to none. They were kind and caring and they listened.

[11:11] Zara: That’s amazing. That’s really good to hear. Sort of following on from your support at UCEM, what would you feel like your personal strengths and challenges are in relation to dyslexia? And do you have any top tips for our listeners?

[11:28] Kathryn: I think my personal strengths with regards to dyslexia are, I think, out of the box. I can think more. Creativity. Creativity. I can’t talk anymore. That’s the dyslexia coming in. And I think creatively, that’s the word, and sometimes it’s just. I use humour to sort of get over things like that, as in, yes, I’ve said it wrong, but it’s a who I am and you might find it a bit funny, so go with me on this. But, no, I do think being dyslexic, yes, it’s been challenging. Yes, sometimes it’s been difficult and it does take me longer to do things, but it’s just part of who I am and I think it gives so many different, like, creative outlets. It’s brilliant. I wouldn’t be without it.

[12:18] Zara: What would be your top tips?

[12:22] Kathryn: I think get support early. The earlier you get support, the quicker you can get to the place where you want to be. I wish I’d found out about this at primary school. I think it would have helped my self esteem and helped me sort of not doubt myself as much as maybe I do. If in doubt, talk to people. There’s not the prejudice that there was. There’s like one in ten, I think, out there that have some form of dyslexia, dyspraxia or dyscalculia. It’s common, and I think the more that people talk about it, the better it is for everyone.

[13:02] Zara: No, I think that’s such good advice. People should definitely not shy away from, you know, if they have a problem in school or in university or even in the workplace, there’s support there for, you know, you to use to help you. It’s not to be ashamed of, it’s just for you to. To feel supported and feel valued. And in the workplace, you need people that has neurodiversity. You can’t have everybody the same in a workforce. Cause everybody brings different skill sets. So, no, that’s definitely a great top tip. Hopefully that rounds off sort of our dyslexia podcast for this week. I hope you guys enjoyed listening. And yeah, if you wouldn’t mind getting in contact if you have any queries with our disability and welfare team about dyslexia, or if you think you might relate to some things that Kathryn’s saying, they’re more than happy to support you.

In the seventh episode of our Be Part of the Change podcast, Danial Shaikh, Student Officer for Disability and Mental Health and Apprentice at UCEM, is joined by Batul Daulby, Principal Education Psychologist and Founder of CF Psychology.

The topics discussed in this episode include:

• The early signs that a student may have an SpLD
• Where students should go to seek help
• The common misconceptions of SpLDs
• How friends and family can support SpLDs
• Batul’s tips for educators and employers

You can also listen via:

• Apple Podcasts
• Spotify

Full transcript

 

[00:00] Aysha: Hello and welcome to the Be Part of the Change podcast. This is UCEM’s new series that will explore the challenges and success stories faced by those from underrepresented backgrounds in the built environment. In this episode we are joined by Dr. Patul Daulby from CF Psychology. CF Psychology provide remote online educational psychological assessments for eligible students here at UCEM. Assessments are compliant with the Specific Learning Difficulties Assessment Standards Committee and can identify the four specific learning difficulties which they recognise. These include dyslexia, dyscalculia, dyspraxia and adhd. For some of our students, having an assessment with CF Psychology is the first time they are aware of a difference in their learning profile. Having been through school and previous education without receiving specific support for an spld. Assessments with CF Psychology can lead to personalised and tailored support being implemented at UCEM to support our students in their studies, allowing them to achieve their potential and understand their unique learning style a little better. Assessments can also be the gateway for funded support such as Disabled Students Allowance or support offered through ESFA funding for apprenticeship. This can provide students with one to one mentoring, assistive technology and equipment to support them in their studies. UCEM have partnered with CF Psychology to provide part funded assessments. 

[01:42] Danial: Hi everyone, I’m Danial, a student officer for Disability and Mental Health here at UCEM. This episode is being recorded as part of Neurodiversity Celebration Week and today I will be joined by Dr. Patul Dulby from CF Psychology. Hi Patul. 

[01:57] Patul: Hi Dan. 

[01:58] Danial: Could we have an introduction to CF Psychology? Maybe an overview of who you are, who the service is for? 

[02:06] Patul: Yeah, sure. So CF Psychology are an educational psychology practice and we specialize in neurodiversity diagnostic assessments. So we assess for specific learning differences, things like dyslexia, dyscalculia, dyspraxia, adhd. And really we are a practice for everyone. We work right the way through the age ranges from, you know, childhood right through to mature adults. But I would say that in recent years a lot of our work has become focused on the HE sector where there appears to be a lot of need and demand for these kinds of assessments. So we work with around 65 universities we have partnered with and we provide assessments for their students. But we do also work with schools, apprenticeships, employers to provide assessments for workers. I guess our sort of passion in CS Psychology really is to play our part in achieving great outcomes and good outcomes for people with learning differences. And we do that through giving access to identification and then support that follows afterwards. So yeah, that’s what we do perfect. 

[03:27] Danial: Is there anything specifically you can provide for the students of you, Sam? 

[03:32] Patul: Yes. So I think one of the main things that we provide, often people can feel a sense of anxiety or trepidation before an assessment. But what we do provide in all our assessments is a very safe and supportive assessment environment, which is really, really important for people to be able to share their experiences and have their needs sort of understood and identified. So I think that’s an important thing for people to know about what the assessment is like. And we do always gather feedback from students about their assessment. And I think overwhelmingly, one of the things that comes through in the feedback is people speaking to that and saying, actually they found it an extremely sort of positive and containing experience. The other thing that we provide is our assessments for students predominantly are done online. That has been something since the pandemic that we have been able to do. What that allows us to do is to provide a very flexible access to assessments. So the assessments run seven days a week from morning until evening. So students are free to book an assessment at whatever time suits them. And it also means that they can carry out the assessment in a comfortable environment for them. They don’t have to travel anywhere and have the sort of stress of getting somewhere. And also, you know, a lot of students are working as well. They’ve got quite hectic schedules. So I think that flexibility of appointments that we get from being able to provide the assessments online is really beneficial. And it also means that we can keep our waiting times really short, so you get quick access to an assessment. What else do we provide? Well, I would say that we have years of experience of working in this field, so we are highly expert in what we do. So we are able to provide you with answers, so you’re going to be able to go away with a clear answer about what is going on for you and whether you do have a specific learning difference. One of the, I think, is a unique feature of our assessments and our assessment model is that in one assessment, which usually lasts around two hours, we are able to look at all the different SpLDs that exist. So dyslexia, dyspraxia, ada, we look at all of that in one go. So we’ve designed quite a sort of elegant assessment model, really, that enables us to do that. It’s because there is so much overlap between these different sort of labels, we feel that it’s really beneficial to be able to look at everything in one go, rather than having to send people off to go and have like another assessment, which is Obviously like adds more time and cost. So the assessments are kind of holistic, comprehensive. And although there is a fee attached to them, we do work very hard to make the assessments as affordable as we can possibly make them. Again, to sort of increase people’s access and reduce those financial sort of barriers that can be there for people. And the other thing that we would provide, we provide for your students when you have an assessment is because we’re able to give you a clear answer. If the answer is that you do have an SPLD or that you are neurodiverse, that is going to give you evidence of entitlement to things like reasonable adjustments, such as exam arrangements or alternative assessment arrangements, and also for disabled student allowance as well. So those are the main benefits, I would say. 

[07:27] Danial: That’s great. So is there any other resources that you’d maybe suggest for students with SPLTs? 

[07:36] Patul: So I think once you, if you are identified with having an SpLD, there are the immediate resources and supports that you’re going to get access to via disabled Student allowance. There will be things like assistive technology or maybe sort of human help in the form of coaching or non medical helper. So there will be those sorts of resources. And then also in your studies you would have the option of things like alternative assessment arrangements just to level the playing field. But going beyond that and just thinking more generally about kind of resources that are going to empower you on your way now that you know what is going on for you. One of the things about having an SPLD is that you’re learning in a neurotypical environment and the teaching methods that are used are sort of teaching methods that work really well for neurotypical people. But you’re very likely to have experienced barriers in your life to teaching. And in reality probably those are going to be ongoing, you know, through, through your life as well. You’re going to face these sort of barriers. So I actually think really learning about learning because teaching and learning, there are two facets. You know, teaching can take place but yet learning might not take place. And equally learning can take place without necessarily you there being teaching. So I think as a neurodiverse learner, I think you can really empower yourself by doing things like listening to podcasts, finding out about human learning. How do our brains learn? How does my brain learn? So I mean I myself am neurodiverse and I, a personal resource that I find really useful has been listening to things like the Huberman Lab. The Huberman Lab has got loads of sort of science based Podcasts about all kinds of things to do with health. But also he seems to be really interested in learning. So there’s lots of really excellent podcasts on there, all about little techniques that you can use as a learner to really optimize learning. I would say I found that incredibly useful for myself. I think also another thing that’s very useful in a general way to learn about is things like TED talks by people like Carol Dweck about the growth mindset. I think if you are neurodiverse, you need to be resilient because you’re going to face challenges you will already have had knocks and, you know, things that you’ve had to overcome in the past. So I think, again, learning about the science of resilience and how you can. How you can steel yourself and be resilient is really worthwhile. And then just practically, I actually find the bda, the British Dyslexia association, it’s not just for, if you’re dyslexic. It’s really for all neurodiverse people. They have access to, like, community forums and just lots of really useful resources and advice for people who are neurodiverse. So I would say those are the things that I would guide, want to guide people towards. 

[11:10] Danial: That sounds amazing. Yeah. Is there any early signs maybe that would indicate a student has an SPLD within. 

[11:18] Patul: Within university? Yes. I mean, some people will, you know, have the benefit of entering higher education with their needs already under, sort of identified, but many, many don’t. And I could go into the reasons why that is. But, you know, for whatever reasons, people often enter higher education without having their needs identified. What they may well encounter. The first sort of things that they might notice is that it’s taking them longer to do things than their peers. So, for example, if they’re having to prepare for an assignment, you’ve obviously got to, you know, read a lot, do your background reading. That might be something that. Well, that is certainly something that we, we find that people will often say that they’ve noticed. You know, I’m getting good grades, but I’m noticing that I’m having to do double, triple what other people are doing. So I think that would be one of the signs. I mean, the barriers may be all kinds of things. They may be dyslexia. It may be because it’s taking you so much longer to decode those words on the page. It may be adhd, because actually you’re just not able to focus and plan. And, you know, studying in higher education, it puts particular demands on your executive functions. And so as a result of that, your SPD might not be highlighted really until you hit higher education. I would say that those are the main two. I mean, obviously what you’ll have is concomitant things like mental health then. But I think those mental health, those sort of low level kind of mental health concerns, low mood anxiety, they are stemming from the other difficulties that I mentioned there before. It’s the frustration and the sort of maybe sense of like inadequacy that you just don’t find that you’re able to do things as well as others. Oh, another thing I would mention is if you’re having difficulty in taking notes, that is a really, really common issue that we find across the splds. And of course that’s another thing that starts to become a really important skill by the time you hit he, you are really expected to be, you should be an autonomous learner. So things like the note taking, reading around your subject, all those sorts of things are going to be really, really important. 

[14:02] Danial: So students may recognise that they have some of these indications. How would you advise about them seeking help? Is there someone they should go to? Is there a website they should maybe go onto and access help? And now, are there any common misconceptions about SPLDs that you encounter? 

[14:22] Patul: Well, I think the first thing to do if you are experiencing these difficulties would be to reach out to the disability team within UCEM. I would say that first level of having, before you immediately dive into having an assessment, having a conversation with somebody who can advise you and then guide you towards the appropriate service for you to have an assessment. There’s many sort of common misconceptions. I mean, in terms of sort of from the outside world, there can still be a misconception that, you know, people with an SPD are not going to be, are going to be less successful and are not, are going to, you know, not be academic, you know, and that’s just not the case at all. And that’s why I think it’s so important for there to be this big conversation that’s going on at the moment. And for people, for example, like myself, sort of self disclosing that I am neurodiverse. I mean, I, you know, I’ve, I’ve done a doctorate, I’ve, I’ve achieved academically and there’s many other, many other people I think, who are also starting to sort of talk about this. And so I think that is helping those very negative sort of pejorative discriminatory attitudes that can still be out there in terms of sort of misconceptions. I mean, I think another misconception from out there can often be to sort of maybe pigeonhole people who are identified as neurodiverse into certain categories. Like, you know, oh, if you’re, if you’re dyslexic, then you are a visual thinker or you know, if you have ADHD then you are creative. I mean, I suppose those are like positive stereotypes, which is better than a negative stereotype. But I still don’t think it’s actually accurate because at the end of the day everybody is an individual. And I think part of what can make you special when you have an SPLD is understanding what your unique strengths and abilities actually are and learning how to actually use those. And those strengths and abilities that you might have might be completely different from that sort of positive stereotype. So yes, I think those can be another misconception from the sort of outside, from the inside, from people who have not yet been identified but who maybe are neurodiverse, who’ve maybe heard about it, you know, often where people tend to hear about neurodiversity and these different sorts of diagnoses, dyslexia, adhd, dyspraxia, they’ll often hear about them on social media. I mean, I think that’s been a brilliant thing in terms of actually raising awareness, starting this big conversation. I think one of the downsides of it is that, I mean, take for example adhd. I think most people experience attention difficulties. It’s just a normal part of the human brain. Often people will hear something on TikTok about attention difficulties related to ADHD and they identify with that and then they can sort of self, self diagnose with adhd. But actually it’s not necessarily that those attention difficulties that you’re having are being caused by adhd, but then it can give somebody that sort of expectation that that is what is going to be the outcome of an assessment. And actually what we might find in an assessment where we’re going to be able to give you a sort of accurate scientifically based diagnosis is that actually there’s another cause for those attention difficulties or maybe those reading difficulties that you’re experiencing. So I think it’s important to be aware but also keep a sort of, you know, an open mind. 

[18:39] Danial: Yeah. With adhd, any difference between a non medical diagnosis and a medical one? 

[18:49] Patul: Yeah, that’s, it’s, it’s a really good question. The principal difference, I would say is the kind of support and resources that you’re going to get access to. And put simply, a medical diagnosis will give you access to medication if that is appropriate for you and for some people it is contraindicated and not appropriate. Whereas a non medical diagnosis will not give you access to medication, but it would give you access to non pharmaceutical support with your studies or in the workplace. So that would be for adhd, that would be things like coaching, alternative access arrangements and reasonable adjustments. That is the main difference in terms of what the two different diagnoses would give you access to. There’s also differences in the process, in the sort of the assessment that you would go through. So if we started with the sort of non medical assessment, so our assessment for example, will look at all four SPLDs. If the psychologist feels that ADHD is strongly indicated in your profile, they will, within the assessment they will do what’s called a clinical interview. So what that means is that they use a special kind of psychological tool. It’s a clinical interview which looks very specifically about whether your attention difficulties, because you are experiencing attention difficulties, but do those attention difficulties actually marry up with the symptoms of adhd? So it’s going to look at that and it’s also going to look at what the impact of those attention difficulties are on you. What the assessment will not do is go into an evaluation of your mental state or it doesn’t do an in depth analysis of mental health difficulties that you may have and it also doesn’t look in any kind of depth at your health, but it will say whether you are experiencing the symptoms of ADHD and it will gauge the impact of those upon your life. Of course, with that assessment you get quick access to the assessment because you know, it’s a short waiting list. A medical assessment will be overseen by a psychiatrist. So in our assessment, non medical assessment is done by a psychologist, either an educational or a clinical psychologist, but with a medical assessment it is overseen by a psychiatrist and it will involve a very in depth review of your mental health and also a sort of mental state exam to sort of look at other potential sort of comorbid mental health difficulties that you may have. The psychiatrist will look at your medical records and maybe want to liaise with your gp because they’re going to be wanting to evaluate your suitability for medication. So they’re going to have to look at things like health conditions that you might have that would preclude medications. So things like heart conditions, tic disorder, things like that, which would mean that medication wouldn’t be suitable. And of course, as we all Know, the waiting list for these assessments within the NHS are very, very long and it’s because of the fact that you have to have sort of have psychiatry involved in those assessments. You can have a private medical assessment, but you are looking at quite a high fee. And even the private providers now are starting to have waiting lists. And if you go with a private provider, the other thing that you should be aware of and that you should ask about, if you go for a private provider for a medical ADHD assessment, is you need to ask about what you might. So you would have to pay the fee, obviously, to have the assessment, but then they. If they prescribe medication, they have to type, go through this titration process where they get the dose of the medication. Right. The GP would not do that for you. It’s very specialist. So you usually have to pay for the psychiatrist’s input over that period. So you could be looking at quite, quite a lot of cost, which is very unfortunate. But that’s the situation that we’re in. 

[23:41] Danial: Yeah. Since it will take such a long time to get these diagnoses, get. If it’s medication, get the medication right. It must be really important to have a good support system. Is there any certain roles of family and friends can play to help support students with an SPLD? 

[24:00] Patul: 100%. I think one of the things about living with a. With an SPLD undiagnosed is that you’ve experienced challenges. The cause of those challenges has never been identified. And so it’s really common for people to have sort of suffered in silence because they’ve felt shame about themselves and they felt aware that they are different and that they’re, you know, facing these challenges but not known why. So often they’ve sort of felt quite alone, actually. And, you know, I think one of the great things about getting that identification and that word and, you know, to describe yourself, a positive word to describe yourself, I hope will really help people to kind of reach out to their support, what network around them and just, you know, everybody’s going to need something different. But I think one of the things that you need to do after you get that sort of diagnosis is to actually breathe a sigh of relief and then start to turn your mind to actually. Well, hopefully you will have had a conversation with the psychologist about what kind of things are going to help you, and then you carry on that thinking and have that conversation with people around you, with your partner, with your family, with your friends. We all play a part in relationships and we all have something to offer. And actually, you know, people are really, really happy to sort of, to give back and help you. So say you’re finding it hard to sort of, you know, plan your assignments. Might be that asking a friend or a partner to be able to talk it aloud with you, get your ideas together, make a plan together, that sort of thing can be really, really helpful. There are so many ways that we can support each other. 

[26:07] Danial: Earlier, you talking about in class there being neurotypical, it’s normally tailored towards people who are neurotypical. Is there any advice you would give to educators who are working with students with SPLD to create a more inclusive learning environment? 

[26:24] Patul: Yes, I think it’s all about setting the emotional tone within your lecture hall or your classroom or wherever you’re working. It’s about setting up human environment around your learners and from the outset letting your students, your learners know that you understand that everyone learns in different ways and that you’re going to sort of teach in the best way you can to make your learning as inclusive and available to as many people as possible. But if there’s anybody, any of your learners who are finding that something is creating a barrier for them that you want them to come and tell you, it’s all just about conversations, it’s just about people speaking to each other. 

[27:17] Danial: Yeah. Do you have any top tips maybe for managing a work life balance? 

[27:24] Patul: Yeah, I think most people who are neurodiverse have what we call a spiky profile, which means that you have pronounced strengths and weaknesses. You know, neurotypical people can usually do. You know, they have like strengths and weaknesses, but mostly they can do most things to a fairly similar sort of level. What you see with neurodiverse people is they have these really big sort of pronounced sort of highs and lows within their profile. And what that means when you’re learning in a kind of neurotypical, sort of a landscape that’s sort of designed really for neurotypicals is that you are going to be having to do quite a lot to compensate. And so as a result of that, you are really at risk of burnout. And it’s what I said at the beginning as well about the need to overwork to achieve the same sort of outcomes as others. So you are at risk of burnout. So really thinking about managing that work life balance is really, really important. We’ve already talked about reaching out to your network, getting other people to sort of support you. It’s going to help you to get from A to B a lot quicker. Assistive technologies are so, so vital. I Mean, I cannot emphasize that enough. It can take some time to learn a new assistive technology, but if you can learn it, it is an absolute game changer. I’ll give you an example of that. For my doctorate, I had to obviously write a thesis and I think this is a common struggle for many people with, with splds is, you know, you have to do obviously a huge literature review. So the writing of that out on a keyboard with all the papers all over the desk, trying to sort of find the relevant bit, look at that, then go back, reference it, it was so laborious. So what I did was I had to train myself in using speech to text and that was an absolute game changer. It meant that I could basically say, right, I’m going to write a thousand words a day. And I could do that because it enabled me to probably work four times faster than I would have been. But that’s just one example of all the. There’s so many fantastic assistive technologies available now. So I think try those out because they can be huge time savers. You need to look after yourself, be really. Be good to yourself, be kind to yourself, know the things that are going to help you sort of, you know, unwind and have sort of R and R. But just remember to yourself that this is going to be worth it. It’s going to be worth it in the end. I think once you’ve sort of gained your qualification or whatever it is that you’re sort of going for in terms of that sort of managing that work life balance, really think when you’re going for jobs about really playing to your strengths and that is going to be ultimately how you’re going to help yourself with that work life balance. But also because then you’re going to be doing something that you absolutely love. So putting in those extra hours is going to be like a pleasure for you and hopefully and you’re going to end up really being very successful in what you do because you’re going to be so passion and driven. 

[30:56] Danial: Yeah, no, completely. Is there anything you’d maybe suggest about after having the assessment and getting a diagnosis when going into work? Is there anything, any tips you should say that talk to your employer about it, saying, I have this or what would you suggest doing? 

[31:11] Patul: Yeah, so I would say, I mean, I think you’ve got it. First of all, you’ve got to get into the workplace because again, it goes back to this thing about, you know, not making kind of assumptions about what you are going to necessarily sort of find hard or do well in Every job is different and it’s not only about the job, it’s about the work environment, the other people working around you, whether you’re working from home or going into the office, whether you’re going to be using sort of it or not. So, I mean, I know there’s always this sort of question about should you, you know, disclose to your employer beforehand? And people get sort of, you know, should I disclose it or not? I mean, I think it’s probably quite good just to get into the job and just see how it goes. But as soon as, as soon as you start to experience something that you’re like, oh, yeah, I can see that there’s a bit of a barrier for me there. Just go in, go and speak to your employer and you’ll be able to work out a way around it. They’ll make adjustments for you. It will only be a good thing in your workplace for you to go and have that conversation. And of course, the other thing that you should be aware of as well is access to work. So access to work is like the workplace equivalent of disabled student allowance. And it’s absolutely fantastic. It’s a really, really brilliant thing. You can have access to work if you’re self employed as well, but as soon as you find that your dyslexia or the ADHD dyspraxia is causing some sort of barrier to you at work, you can apply for access to work. And what is usually incorporated into that is something called a workplace needs assessment, which is basically where you’ll work with an assessor and they will talk with you about the barriers that you’re facing and then they will make lots of suggestions about technology or adaptations that you could have. But a lot, to be honest, a lot of the sort of adjustments that can be made are just kind of like no cost or low cost anyway. So you may not necessarily need access to work, but if you did require certain kinds of technologies, assistive technologies, obviously some of them could be quite expensive and you can apply to access to. 

[33:29] Danial: Work, correct me if I’m wrong, I think with access to work as well, I think they can also offer talks with people in your company so they can explain they don’t have to name you, but talk with autism or with just Lexia or adhd, this is how it can affect people in the company and almost might help people who are higher up in the company understand other people are going through this as well, which I do think is beneficial. 

[33:56] Patul: Absolutely. They can sort of advocate for you and other things that you can access is things like coaching. Coaching can be really beneficial for somebody with adhd, with any spld, really. But, yeah, there’s all kinds of things that you can access through that. Yeah, it’s fantastic and I think people should make more use of it. 

[34:21] Danial: And that’s all the questions I have. Is there anything else you’d like to say? 

[34:26] Patul: No, that’s. I think that’s everything. But, yeah, just sort of wish all your neurodiverse students all the best with their studies and, yeah, it’s been really good to speak to you, Dan. 

[34:38] Danial: Thank you. Thank you.