Be Part of the Change podcast episode 10 – Autism Awareness Month

Posted on: 25 April, 2025

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The tenth episode of the Be Part of the Change podcast has been released in April to mark Autism Awareness Month – a global month of events to increase understanding and acceptance of autism and celebrate the success and achievements of autistic individuals. In this episode, Lydia Williams, Disability Advisor at the University, is joined by Rosie Hart, Group ESG Lead at Cast Group. Together they discuss how Rosie first discovered she was autistic and how her experiences with neurodiversity have influenced her work in the built environment.

The topics discussed in this episode include

• When did you learn you were autistic and what was the journey to understanding that part of yourself like?
• Were there any challenges that you experienced in relation to your neurodiversity?
• How would you say your autistic identity has influenced your work or continues to influence your work today?
• Have you come across any misconceptions about autism or neurodiversity in general within the built environment?
• Are there any ways that you advocate for yourself and for others in a professional setting?

Full transcript

[00:00] Aysha: Hello and welcome to the Be Part of the Change podcast. This is UCM’s new series that will explore the challenges and success stories faced by those from underrepresented backgrounds in the built environment.

[00:17] Lydia: Hello everyone and welcome to this special edition of the Be Part of the Change podcast to celebrate Autism Awareness Month. My name is Lydia and I’m part of the disability team here at UCEM. Today I’m joined by a special guest from the built environment sector to talk about autism and the built environment sector. Allow me to introduce Rosie Hart as ESG Group Lead at CAST Group. Rosie understands and values the power of teamwork across all areas of the fitout industry, lending her expertise and supporting her team, colleagues and clients as they work together to create meaningful impact. Rosie is an active member in industry networks, completing the UK GBC Future Leaders and Systems change programmes and sitting as the ESG lead for the Young Professionals in Social Value Group. She joins us today as part of our committee involvement with Ability Re. Ability Re are working to increase awareness and develop best practice relating to disability, neurodiversity, long term health and mental ill health within the real estate and built environment sectors. So thank you so much for joining us. Rosie, to start things off, could you tell us just a little bit more about yourself? Obviously we’ve had that lovely intro but just a bit about you.

[01:32] Rosie: Yeah, hi. A bit about me. I mean you’ve, you’ve kind of summed it up really about where I am now. I’ve been in the industry for about nine years. My dad is a tradesman by heart, he’s a project manager on the projects and I think I’ve always been connected to the built environment through that. So I started in kind of more on sites as like administrative and then kind of work my way up to where I am today. I’ve always been interested in people. I think that’s quite a common trait I’ve heard between people with autism is if you don’t trying to understand the world around you. So I’ve, I found, I kind of found my industry that way and I would say it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s, I think it’s got a special industry. It actually, I, I believe, I don’t know any statistics to back it up that it actually kind of does appeal to neurodiverse people more especially. Kind of like my end of the industry. But yeah, separate to my kind of professional experience I would say that I’m just as same as everyone that I work with, to be honest. Like we’re all We’ve all got our hobbies and interests and lives, and I think the more I’ve gotten to know everyone I work with, the more I realize how similar we are.

[03:02] Lydia: Thank you so much. Yeah, really interesting to sort of hear that you’ve kind of grown up in the sector and made your way, forged your way through there. Thank you so much for that intro. And we’re kind of going to dive a little bit deeper into our topic of autism and the adult environment. So when did you learn you were autistic and what was the kind of journey to understanding that part of yourself like?

[03:27] Rosie: I think it might be quite rare from what I’ve understood from the networks that I’ve now been involved with. I was diagnosed quite early, I. About six or seven years old. It was very much pushed by my mum, who kind of the feedback from the school was that I. I didn’t. I didn’t fit in, in the. In. In the. In the sense of the traditional. The labels that were maybe kind of pushed around in the 90s, early noughties. It’s a little bit different. It’s not too long ago, but it’s long ago that it was. There were. There were changes there. So I, Yeah, I was diagnosed really, really young, but I was diagnosed along with what would have been Asperger’s, which is now a term no longer used, and ADHD and dyspraxia. But ADHD was a bit more common and was pushed to the forefront of my diagnosis in the way that it was described to me as a child. So it was very much like, don’t worry about the autistic side. ADHD is something that we can kind of focus on. So I. Not until university, where I was given additional support and the lovely aide said to me, you remind me so much of my autistic daughter. And I was like, what? I thought. I was just. I took. I always take things. I’m aware of the fact I can take things quite literally. So when I was told not to worry about that, I didn’t. Yeah, it was a big part of myself. I didn’t really understand until at uni. And then I kind of looked into it more. I was like, no, no, this is this. Me, I’m. This, this is. This. I am 100% autistic and it makes complete sense. It was this little part of me that I just didn’t really. I just put to the back of my mind. I think being able to separate out how you feel or things that you think about is quite an easy disassociative. Trait that can have its benefits and obviously in some other ways not. But yeah, in this instance I didn’t really, didn’t really see it as part of my personality. And then going into my career, it’s not something that I talked about or like disclosed in my early employment. And then I would say more so in the last kind of three or four years, mostly by the support of friends, friends, family, my partner. It’s a part of me that I’ve fully accepted and feel really close to now. And I feel I’m in harmony with, I guess. But it was. I appreciate that a lot of people come to the diagnosis in such different ways or maybe not even even being diagnosed. And I think even just looking at the different traits or different parts of autism and neurodiversity wider, there are things that everyone can kind of identify with. So I do really sympathise for everyone’s unique journeys with it.

[06:22] Lydia: Yeah, I think you’re right. It can be such a journey to kind of assimilating the news of a new diagnosis or recognizing different aspects of it in your identity and in your day to day life. But yeah, having that sort of freeness to share it with people and say, hey, look, this is part of who I am that can really open doors and really be a powerful thing. Thank you. Kind of moving on to sort of that part of our conversation. What do you feel are your personal strengths and any challenges that you experience in relation to your neurodiversity?

[07:02] Rosie: It’s hard because I think, I don’t know if you know, ties in with masking, but no one has ever asked me if I was or not. That’s never been an experience that I’ve had. It’s a full case of disclosing and people saying, oh, I would never have known, which is a very common phrase that you get. But in terms of kind of my, my challenges, I think I’ve had different challenges and different strengths throughout my career that relate to my autism. I think before I was comfortable in understanding it at a deeper level because obviously everything I say now is about my own lived experience. Everyone is so, so different. But the things that I used to find challenging, I know I don’t now. So I not being able to speak about it, I would bottle things up and then I was, I was a lot more non verbal earlier in my career and then that would mean that I could, I was, I would push and push and push things down until I would then kind of have quite strong emotional reactions if something was Upsetting or if I got particularly negative feedback or things like that, they stand out as being quite, quite hard points in my career. Just I think that’s quite common that people feel it’s quite hard to digest feedback in a live setting. Like sometimes it’s better to have it in like a written format or notice or you know, there’s lots of different settings, formats to do it. But that’s something that I don’t feel like now necessarily. Like I can. I think sometimes experiencing these things kind of help you to know how to handle them in the future. I think there’s a lot in knowing if you’ve done something successfully once you can do it again and then once you do those enough times that you can expand that out to be like, just because I haven’t done this specific thing doesn’t mean that I can’t do it. I think finding confidence and self belief is a huge part. I’m very fortunate to. I was very open and disclosed my autism diagnosis as part of my interview. My current company and I was met very much with just acceptance and what, what do we, what can we do to help you? And to be honest, being in a setting where someone and a group of people were so supportive actually has made me more and more open. But I do feel like that is. That can be quite unique in an experience. So I think going back to your question because I’ve kind of gone off a little bit, some challenges that I’ve definitely found are my ability to communicate can fluctuate. So sometimes I’m hyperverbal and sometimes I’m not. Sometimes it depends who I’m around in the environment. Like my, my comfort level can be quiet and just like looking and then other times I don’t shut. So it really does depend. I think another thing for me is decision fatigue. I really can struggle with that because I just feel like there’s just so many things I could do or possibilities that I then get a bit stuck. But I’ve found that just by being open with people and saying. I find communicating and speaking out everything that’s in my head with people, even if they don’t respond and it’s just a sounding board really, really my brain. So like I would recommend even if you haven’t got support to do that just to do it to your. To yourself, that can be really valuable feel really weird. And I think a lot of things that feel really weird when you first do them, it’s just because they’re new and that’s a really normal feeling to Have. I wish I kind of known that when I was. When I was younger. There’s quite a lot of strengths and challenges, but I don’t think more so than anybody else. I think remembering that everybody has challenges and that when you come, when you vocalize them, you tend to find people who validate and say, oh, yeah, I get that, like, a lot of these things common in just human behavior. And one of the strengths that I think that used to be a challenge was that I used to fight the fact that my brain could go from one task to the other and one, you know, want to do loads of different things. Whereas now I fully embrace the flow of that and I see it as like. As if I’m on a roller coaster. And I’m just. I just put my, like, full kind of energy behind it, I guess, and just go, right. I’m in the. That’s. That’s where I’m going. I don’t need to stop it or try and control it. Just trust that the way that we think is right. Like, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being that way, if anything, actually is. It can be quite a nice feeling once you don’t fight it or feel like you’re trying to control it. It’s actually quite. Yeah, it’s natural. It’s very natural to be in that. In that state of mind. But a challenge can be as well, like audio, like stimulation. I can get overstimulated and stuff like that, but you can feel it when it’s happening. And just learning how to kind of manage your time around it or find ways to get space and breathers is. Is valuable and to give yourself the space to do that. Yeah. Through it, because. Yeah, recharge is incredibly important.

[12:45] Lydia: That’s so vital. I think the knowing yourself, knowing how you tend to work best and being gentle with yourself. Yeah. I think, you know, burnout particularly can be really difficult. And for those who are neurodivergent, you might find that you’re suddenly getting to that stage quite quickly because you’ve been masking and trying to kind of fit in with a neurotypical kind of lens. Yeah. So it’s really, really important to just be aware of yourself, your kind of areas where you find you’ll end up saying yes too much or taking too much on, and then before you know it, you’re getting to that. Burnout. Yeah. Thank you so much.

[13:27] Rosie: Yeah, I mean, definitely. That’s a challenge, saying yes all the time. I’ve actually had that feedback to say, you’ve never said no, but I think that that is just as much as a challenge. I really don’t. You know, I’m not trying to. Burnout is serious, and I’ve experienced it. There is a balance to it. But I think it’s okay to say yes and yes and. Yeah, I can. We can. We can do this. It’s not a collective. And you don’t just put it all on your own shoulders in knowing and communicating to say yes and or no. But I could if this happened, like speaking with those around you to come up with the solutions to be able to do. Enable you to do the things that you want to do. So it is a balance.

[14:12] Lydia: Yeah, for sure. So we’ll move on to kind of thinking about work and how sort of your autistic identity has. Has shaped. So how. How would you say your autistic identity has influenced your work or continues to influence your work today?

[14:30] Rosie: This is a hard one because it’s so ingrained in my identity.

[14:34] Lydia: Yeah, absolutely.

[14:36] Rosie: And I think being in the, like, in the built environment, but just in the workplace for over a decade, everybody has their own identities and we all work in our own little ways, and everybody’s different. And I think. I don’t know if I would have been ended up in the role that I had if I wasn’t neurodiverse, though. I don’t know anything else. Yeah, it’s you, isn’t it? Yeah, it’s me. And I’ve never, like. It’s your identity. Yeah, yeah. And there’s never been a point in my head where I’ve thought I wish I wasn’t because it isn’t possible. It’s the only way that I know to be. And it’s not. It’s not something that I would ever. Would. Would ever hold against anybody else. So it’s like, that’s just something that I. That I’m so, like, I guess, just aligned with because it’s, as you say, like, part of your identity, but in terms of, like, bringing it into work, I think the more that I bring my true self to work, the only. The better that it’s gone for me.

[15:43] Lydia: Yeah.

[15:44] Rosie: And I think people respond to truth and people can tell when you’re. When you’re being yourself, and people gravitate towards that, regardless of the traits within yourself. I do. I do believe that. How does it influence my work? I don’t know. I think it’s just because I take it so literally. I can’t think of an answer for it because it is just so. It’s just How I work. Yeah.

[16:13] Lydia: You know, you’ve given us one in being your true authentic self at work and through that, probably encouraging others to just be accepting of themselves and their challenges and their, their differences. So yeah, I think that’s, that’s a perfect answer in and of itself. Bringing your authentic to the workplace.

[16:34] Rosie: Yeah. Thank you.

[16:36] Lydia: And have you come any across any misconceptions or anything else about autism or neurodiversity in general within the built environment and anything that you wish more people would understand about that aspect?

[16:50] Rosie: I don’t know if this is specific to neurodiversity or just difference. I think if someone doesn’t know and like a lived experience of something or they understand it, then there’s going to be misconceptions there because everything that they know is based off of whatever information that they’ve heard or absorbed. And that’s just impossible to, to, to, to even like understand of what they’ve, what they’ve experienced, I guess. But earlier on in my career I have heard kind of people’s misconceptions about others. And I think around like capability and their fears of like, unjustified fears of risk of like, what does this mean? Is it. I just think it just can bring, it can bring people’s questions because they’re like, they don’t know what it means. It’s just a label that we’ve got to explain a number of traits. But you couldn’t explain everybody’s traits if you tried. It’s a tough one. Yeah. I think unfortunately, as, as the time that it is, the more comfortable that you are in talking about it, it’s just adding more people that are then more comfortable talking about it and understand it. Yeah. So there may be misconceptions out there, but like, don’t, like, I wouldn’t hold. I try not to hold onto those. In reality, there’s hundreds of amazing interactions for every, for every bad one. And you know, bad experiences that I’ve had earlier in my career weren’t even necessarily about me. It was just witness to others. And then when I’ve now got more comfortable, I’ve ch. I’ve challenged in the past and it’s always led to like just a conversation where like, oh my God, I didn’t know. And then it’s like a learning moment really is. And you can change, you can change misconceptions. They’re not set in stone. They’re not beliefs. They’re not like, yeah, like, they’re perfectly natural and they’re an opportunity to for conversation. We’ve all got our things that we want to, like, stand. We want to talk about or stand behind. And that’s really human. Yeah.

[19:13] Lydia: Love the fact that, yeah. You’re using that opportunity as a learning moment and an opportunity to discuss and be listened to and have other people’s voices heard. And that’s how we can address those misconceptions. At the end of the day, you know, knowledge is power and. And it can, I guess, feel hard to do if it might feel really personal. But actually, the learning and the opportunity that can come from that can be really, really incredible.

[19:40] Rosie: And they can become the most allies as well. Yeah. Because they’re like, it just. They just didn’t know. Just did not know that they’ve never met someone who spoke about it or comfortable about it, open about it. And then what you’ll find is that when you do that and you’re a friend or, you know, a colleague, they’ll advocate and they’ll be like, yeah. When they.

[20:00] Lydia: When they.

[20:01] Rosie: In the future think of someone who’s with. Who is autistic, they’ll be like, oh, I knew I used to know someone. And they were like. Like, you know, it can completely change. Change the whole scope of it. Yeah.

[20:12] Lydia: And you carry it forward and you. And you do it for others and. And that can be. Yeah. Really incredible for people. Okay, so in terms of sort of professional setting and work, are there any ways that you advocate for yourself and for others in a professional setting?

[20:31] Rosie: One of the things I think is don’t assume that people know. I think I’ve tended to speak that just because I’m thinking about loads of things that other people automatically assume that they know what I’m thinking.

[20:45] Lydia: You’ll.

[20:46] Rosie: You’ll be sometimes, most of the time, completely so surprised. No one. I don’t think anyone’s an open book until you get into a conversation and you, and you, and you. You delve into it, but in ways to advocate for myself. I think accepting yourself and understanding. Not even just accepting, because I think that’s, like, somewhat neutral. It’s like, love it. I wouldn’t change my autism. I’ve said that a minute ago, but I wouldn’t. I love my friends who are autistic, and by sitting those people, I’m like, there’s some. The traits. Some traits are absolutely amazing in the way that we, like, feel and express and like, we get that. We love our luck. We have our interests that we then kind of like, delve into and we. We share them. And I think that’s something, I think that’s, that’s something lovely in that. But in terms of like advocating for myself in a professional way. Yeah. I think it, the more you get comfortable with yourself and the more that you can express, allow, like it does allow for other people to, to then have that experience to be able to then help you or help others and then you become like a group or like a support system for each other. I actually think the hardest bit is advocating for yourself in the first place. But it gets, I promise you it does get easier.

[22:12] Lydia: Yeah, I’m taking that first step and making a stand and saying I need this or I need something in a different format or recognize that this is part of me and this is the way I like to communicate. Yeah, that can feel like a really big step. But once you’ve told people they’ve got that understanding of you and that can then be carried forward and be supportive for the rest of your career or the rest of, you know, whatever you’re working on with them. Thank you.

[22:46] Rosie: Yeah, and also like it’s a two way street because you might advocate, you want to advocate for yourself to be heard and understood and. Yeah, because you want to have a good personal relationship or professional relationship or whatever it is, but then you’ve also got to have that from the other person too. It’s not just a case of you saying this is, this is what I need because there is that. But it’s also like understanding that what do they, what, what do people need from, from you? Or what do, how do they like to receive information? What like, are they also neurodiverse and not able to not, not prefer information to be provided in a certain way? I think that’s really important is to consider that we can all be in the same position in certain ways. So I do think if you can advocate for yourself in a way that is not emotionally removed because it’s obviously emotionally charged, but create a way that is, can be kind of digested as well, which is obviously appreciate. Is a lot of work and it’s a skill and it takes time. But that’s again, doing it in different formats, finding people that you sound bored off practice conversations. Like I’m happy for anyone to reach out off the back of this, if any, like, if any, if I can help with anything like that. Miss it.

[24:06] Lydia: Oh, it’s amazing. Thank you.

[24:08] Rosie: Yeah.

[24:08] Lydia: And as you say, the, the more you, the more you do it, the more comfortable you’ll feel with having those conversations. Thank you. We have got one final question. If that’s okay. Why is raising awareness of neurodiversity in the built environment sector specifically so vital?

[24:28] Rosie: I think that inclusion, specifically neurodiversity, just creates more opportunities than it does barrier. I think the happier and more accepted people are of each other, the more accepted they’ll be of themselves. And I think that’s ultimately what everybody’s wanting to achieve.

[24:55] Lydia: Yeah. Well, it’s been such an amazing conversation that we’ve had. I’m really grateful for you to sort of come and discuss this with us and to be so open as well about things. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences and I’m. Oh yeah, really, really grateful that we’ve managed to have this chat. If you have any questions or queries about autism, you can contact the Disability team by raising an inquiry on Student Central or emailing disabilitysupport@ucem.ac.uk thanks again to Rosie and thank you so much for tuning in.

[25:37] Aysha: Thanks for listening to the Be Part of the Change podcast. To find out more and to get involved with the campaign, Google ucem Be Part of the Change. If you’d like to get in touch with our our student offices, contact outreachandinclusion@ucem.a.cuk